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A bad reference damages the reputation of a previous employee, but honesty and duty can compel an officer of a company to furnish a bad reference.

Wrong.



What I said last time about this:

What I have to say about your perspective on references is that I will never, under any circumstances, work with, for, or over someone who believes what I think you're saying you believe about references. "Bad reference => war", to me, is essentially an endorsement of professional dishonesty.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5433552

At any rate, thank you for confirming my suspicion that your third "ethic" was "the ethic of not providing bad references ever".


Related to the earlier thread: how do you (tptacek, moc, or others) feel about hiding expunged criminal convictions. Or vacated ones. e.g. if you were Randall Schwartz, or weev.


It depends way, way too much on the circumstances. What we're really asking is, do customers and clients have a right to know?


I actually think I'm sympathetic to not putting even a regular felony on a resume, or disclosing it to HR/early screening; only bringing it up later in the process, but before accepting the job.

I'd personally try to bring it up after I've "sold" the company on tech/etc. skills, but before offer letter is prepared. This is assuming it's not asked earlier in the process -- I've never seen "applications" for real jobs (where job app forms often do include "have you been arrested? convicted of a felony?). Even if it is asked I'd rather leave it blank or asterisk or whatever vs. a simple "yes" at the screening stage.

But that's about as far as I'd bend things. (and IMO it's wrong to even waste people's time if a felony is obvious disqualification, like for a national security job.)

In infosec, it seems like a weird dichotomy between CFAA being a clear "cannot possibly be hired" or "wow, kinda cool". What would be shitty is having a non-professional non-minor-drug-or-traffic conviction, like some kind of sex crime. Finding a job even in infosec with even a minor sex crime on one's record has to suck.


I have no ethical problem with people lying to get jobs, as long as the lies don't pertain to the job itself.

Job fraud (getting a job you can't perform, or where the risks are too high) is unethical. If you claim you're a doctor and you're not (quackery) or lie in a government security clearance process, you're doing something immoral (and also quite illegal).

However, people often lie, in effect, (a) to inflate their social status, (b) to simplify a complicated story under the (correct) assumption that most people are shallow and averse to complexity, (c) to improve their apparent leverage in negotiation, and (d) to hide embarrassments that are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I have no problem with people who do that, even if they're lying about objective facts (job titles, performance reviews, dates of employment). The currencies they are counterfeiting (workplace social status, managerial blessing) have no legitimacy anyway.


Why? BTW can you write the essay mentioned in the end of http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/04/06/the-right-and...




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