Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> Makes you wonder what pioneers back in the 60s and 70s could have accomplished with modern hardware.

One of the best Bret Victor talks is about that.

"The Future of Programming"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTEmbeENF4

> And it kills me to think that Smalltalk and Visual Basic had a built-in GUI editor and layout manager, unlike the web.

Anyone of us doing desktop/mobile development on .NET, Java, Android, iOS, Qt development can still enjoy such goodies.

With web, one day it might catch 90's RAD tooling.



One of the reasons it has never taken off is that GUI editors and layout managers that have come out for the web (and there have been a few), have never quite gotten the code right. They would produce a page that looked like the designer... but with terribly written HTML/CSS. So web designers and developers prefer to make their own markup.


The deeper problem is that the tech industry is slow to get rid of HTML, even though HTML was created to exchange documents, and nowadays we mostly use it as a GUI for network software. See "The Problem With HTML":

http://www.smashcompany.com/technology/the-problem-with-html


HTML isn't the problem - declarative markup is a great way of doing GUI layout, non-web GUI frameworks tend to come up with alternatives that look similar. The problem is CSS, which is a fractal of bad design, broken at every level, from selectors to the box model.


CSS works fine for Text markup. The problem is you get two models one where the Browser picks where stuff goes depending on the browser and local settings, another where the designer makes that choice. You can't have both things exist at the same time, on top of that most designers don't know what they are doing.


That I agree with.

Android, iOS, XAML and QML are quite nice to work with.


It used to be conventional wisdom that using HTML as a layout system is wrong, you know. Because it wasn't meant to be one, and text content was supposed to be independent of the medium on which it is viewed. Well, at the time I had my doubts that it was going to work, but it was (and still is) a nice idea.


I seldom recognize pieces of HTML/CSS literature when looking at the developer tools panel, or source code from well known frameworks.


I used the 1990s RAD tooling, and in many regards, the results were mediocre at best. Changing a window size could kill your form, to say nothing of font size.

The live aspect was great, though.


90's RAD tooling also supported layout managers, devs just have to actually use them.

Also RAD tooling is about the whole stack, not just dragging stuff into forms.


But you would expect 20 years to be enough time to improve RAD tooling in areas it wasn't so great at for modern devices. Instead, at least as far as the web is concerned, it's mostly been missing.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: